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Whoa, I’m first as i begin to type, this is weird.
Siff states, “each individual displays a different rate, degree and efficiency of responding to the same type, quality and quantity of physical training,” (p.95). This statement is amplified when speaking of the Amateur Athlete when one looks at differences in maturation, psychological readiness and the opportunity to train. The first limiting factor to look at is the athletes psychological maturity, “the desire to participate in such conditioning programs frame the quality of any strength training program,” (Zatsiorsky, 200). If the athlete does not want to participate, then everything else is null and void. “The athlete must be mentally and emotionally ready to comply with coaching instructions and undergo the stress of a training program,’ (Zatsiorsky, 200). Once the athlete has shown the desire to participate and the ability to mentally and emotionally handle the sport/training, then adequate exposure to appropriate and knowledgeable strength training will be the next limiting factor. “Many athletes go into a competitive season with little or no physical preparation to meet the demands of the sport, ” (Zatsiorsky, 200). Therefore a well thought out, age (physio/psychological) appropriate training program must be implemented to “better prepare the young athlete’s bodies to tolerate the practice and competitive stresses of sports,” (Zatsiorsky, 200). As we have talked about, opportunity to participate in these activities are what the athlete needs. The “hyperparenting” that has been mentioned by Zatsiorsky, and the prevalence of multi-sport/multi-season athletes is a determent to these athletes. Cut back on the sports participated in year round, take seasons off to allow the athletes to train, heal and participate in a different sport. If the athlete is not allowed preparation and recuperation, then any training program will fail. The last limiting factor is three fold and one has the biggest propensity to kick you in the shorts; genetic potential, nutrition and sleep. Parents and athletes need to be educated on the proper nutritional guidelines for the sport or training and adequate amounts of sleep to repair from said training and participation. One cannot out train a bad diet or perform at a high level without enough sleep. Genetic potential, well since I swim in the shallow end of the gene pool I will attest to this personally, athletes are born. The athlete’s genetic potential for muscle growth and muscle composition, height, morphology, etc. is predetermined, as is the innate and hard to quantify term of athleticism. I personally have a good skill set, coordination, coach-ability, drive, testicular fortitude, yet I don’t have the height, bone structure or physiology to be a professional athlete. That is a hard thing to sell to an adolescent, you were born lacking, and no matter what you do correct, it might not be enough to excel.
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@menacedolan (I don’t think I needed to put that since this is a reply to yours but whatever). You totally nailed it, I am glad I read yours before posting because mine would have looked very similar, so now I will have to go with a slightly different approach. IMO I think the biggest thing you hit was this comment:
The first limiting factor to look at is the athletes psychological maturity, “the desire to participate in such conditioning programs frame the quality of any strength training program,” (Zatsiorsky, 200). If the athlete does not want to participate, then everything else is null and void.
In my personal experience this is the biggest factor with young athletes! You also touched on the “hyperparenting” phenomenon that Zatsiorsky laid out. Just think, he made that statement in 1995 look at what that shit has turned into today!
The one statement I do not necessarily agree with what you said, and this is picky, is:
I personally have a good skill set, coordination, coach-ability, drive, testicular fortitude, yet I don’t have the height, bone structure or physiology to be a professional athlete.
I do not disagree with what you were saying about genetics in regards to height, muscle growth, morphology, etc. But I do disagree with the statement you could not have been a pro athlete based solely on genetics. If you would have been steered in the right direction with regards to sport that your genetics lined up with that would have been a possibility. This is going down a huge rabbit hole but I am willing to discuss.
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This genetic piece could be a huge rabbit hole. Now, we cannot speak in absolutes because there are always some outliers (ex. Muggsy Bogues). But genetics will play a role in the sport an athlete would be best suited for. The sport an athlete is best suited for, physically, may not always be the sport they want to play. Which then if a person has all the physical attributes to play a certain sport they must have the drive to play it too. The athlete’s lack of effort to advance in the sport or training could be the limiting factor.
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We often see people on the amateur progression ask for help when they haven’t hit their reps for the week. The first thing out of the next sensible person is, “how’s your sleep and nutrition?” These factors play a major role in progress through the amateur progression. To us as coaches, nutritional needs has become sort of second nature. We know what to eat and how much to eat to improve performance. The problem is the amateur athlete doesn’t always know. Some of the same factors appear in sleep. In general, we all know we need sleep. It isn’t until someone preaches the importance of sleep that athletes pay attention.
Zatsiorsky said, “Supervised strength training has been found to be safe and effective even for the preadolescent athlete” (1995, p.193). I keyed on a few words in this quote when I read it. The first word was “supervised”, indicating there is a coach present. The next words were, “safe and effective”. From those, we can assume they are indicating there is a competent coach present. Zatsiorsky even defined competent supervision “competent supervision involves having an individual who understands exercise techniques, exercise prescriptions” (1995, p.193). A limiting factor to progression of an amateur could be the coach. The coach may lack knowledge or drive to provide the athlete with the proper tools and knowledge. A coach lacking knowledge could lead to an athlete getting injured. An injury may be a limiting factor in progression as well. If they have to recover for a long period of time they will be away from training.It was quite fascinating how many factors could limit progression. Even more fascinating, seeing how many factors could compound like a domino effect if people distributing training lack knowledge.
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I am so on board with this thought. I see it the most with sport coaches who think they are strength coaches. The talk we had last week involved us strength coaches “staying in our lanes” with respect to sport skill, well it’s a 2 way street and there are sport coaches severely limiting their athlete’s potential with bullshit training. A quote from my former college football coach Mark Watts and friend of PAHQ, (side note: probably one of the most solid guys I know, he’s from Pittsburgh not a coincidence) “Ignorance and Arrogance is the absolute worst combination of characteristics of any coach. Nothing will harm your team, athletes, and career more”. This is “coach as a limiting factor” to a T.
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I like how many times all of the authors stated the need for quality, knowledgeable, appropriate training plans.
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It was pretty fascinating just how many factors were out of the athletes control. The main factor the athlete could control was their mental and emotional readiness to participate. Although not all amateurs are young, most of them are. So parental influence could limit the performance as well. We have all seen the parents trying to live through their kids. The athlete/kid could end up burning out and hating sports because of their parents.
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Since that bastard @menacedolan beat me to the punch this week I will go with a different limiting factor which somewhat piggy backs off of one of the assignments. Lack of Inter and Intra-muscular coordination, and muscle hypertrophy are all limiting factors for the amateur athlete. Siff states that Intermuscular coordination takes about 2-3 weeks to build, while Intra builds over the following 4-6 weeks, followed by muscular hypertrophy over the next 6-12 weeks. (p.96). Young athletes who have been inherently active and are cognitively ready to begin a program will naturally progress faster than those who have little active sporting experience and feel forced to be there. While all of these things increase (coordination and strength) it is important to watch for stagnation. This is where a coach can truly be a limiting factor to their athlete. If you are not paying attention to an athlete’s progress and they stagnate because you didn’t recognize it was time to progress them as into a more advanced program possibly out of the amateur protocol all together, then you as a coach have failed your athlete. So a coach can also be a limiting factor!
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I do not think that coordination is a limiting factor at all, it is trained just as the muscles are. Just because it is not developed, does not mean there is not a propensity for it. When you move to an elite athlete or an amateur that has trained for a significant period of time, then it is a huge deal. Throw hypertrophy in with it, Z-man said that while size of growth and/or muscle mass might not be significant due to hormonal deficiencies, the strength gained is significant when training the amateur athlete.
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I have to disagree with it not being a limiting factor. Since it isn’t developed the amateur athlete will not be as strong, or generate forces as quickly. Just because it is trained, and absence doesn’t mean there isn’t a propensity for it, at the given point in an athletes training age it is one factors limiting them. I think that if you are missing or lacking efficiency a vital compenent then that would be a limiting factor.
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One of the biggest limiting factors I see in my young athletes that walk through the door is their lack of coordination all the way through. There lack of intramuscular coordination and inability to effectively recruit motor units and utilize rate coding, their overall lack of intramuscular coordination. This of course can be learned and it is expected that we will effectively, efficiently and intelligently generate programming for our athletes to achieve this, but fresh off the boat, these kids have as much structural integrity as a soggy piece of bread and move like gumby. We cant ask an athlete to load up the bar and squat, press or pull if they lack the ability to adequately recruit motor units, or they display ineffective or inadequate rate coding; i.e. they have never even done any heavy resistance training. We certainly cannot expect them to perform these movements if they lack the ability to coordinate between different muscle groups. I learned this the hard way and quickly, on the fly, was forced to teach kids how to crawl, and only touched on how to walk. In my experience when i get a kid who is 12-15 they lack so much intra and intermuscular coordination that barbells are almost out of the question. Now, im spending the first 6 weeks on movement, position, isometric strength, and hitting concentric and eccentric contractions via KB and DB movements. Some kids learn faster than others but in my experience, that is the number one limiting factor to the “amateur” athletes I see. Granted, some kids may have some “weightlifting” experience, but rarely have the made the connections necessary to safely and proficiently move through space with external load. Once those kids develop that muscular coordination they take off like a bat out of hell…
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@train608,
Where does the reading support your observation?
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My thoughts on the biggest limiting factors for the amateur athlete involve more than just physical aspects of training. Siff describes a complete athlete where, “The mental and physical systems interact continuously and it is vital to remember that the highly-shilled, superbly conditioned body is of little value in competition without the right frame of mind” (p.69) From the physical perspective under-development of the neuromuscular system (inter- and intramuscular coordination) is the biggest limiting factor. This point has already been made above but let me take it another direction. Sport is harmony of movement. Whether you take J Welly’s definition of athleticism or simply use the eye test it is clear that the best athletes have complete control of their body and movements. Siff later states, “Sport then becomes a problem-solving activity in which movements are used to produce the necessary solution. These movements are controlled by the neuromuscular system, whose performance is the result of innate characteristics and the long-term acquisition of skills through trainging” (Siff, 96). The development of this system, or coordination in general, is the biggest limiting factor for amateur athletes.
From a mental or psychological perspective Siff lists over 25 factors that can negatively effect strength some being, attitudes towards events and participants in sport, attitudes towards winning and losing, ability to manage distractions, and the ability to relax effectively. All of these traits must be trained and a good coach is key. “The role of a competent coach in assisting the athlete cannot be underestimated in this respect, because ideal physical preparation in sport will never compensate for deficiencies produced by psychological weaknesses which arise during competition” (Siff, 13). This is where the “coach as limiting factor” becomes a reality. It can be a coach that spews misinformation about training protocols or a coach that doesn’t develop the mental side of sport but either way coach’s can hold athletes back. My goal is to never be the limiting factor. Assess my athlete and determine the correct course of action to have him/her excel on the field.
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I love that Supertraining quote, “sport then becomes problem solving.” That is exactly what we are trying to accomplish in our training. We know what sport they are play, but there a infinite possibilities of problems that they could face. We have to prepare them to be able to complete those unknown task. And as the quote states this is all controlled by the neuromuscular system, which the amateur athlete has developed yet.
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One of the top limiting factors is the Coach or the first person that dramatically inspires this athlete to compete to train. Siff wrote on page 13: “The role of a competent coach in assisting the athlete cannot be underestimated in this respect, because ideal physical preparation in sport will never compensate for deficiencies produced by psychological weaknesses which arise during competition”. It’s the story of the first boyfriend that was a douche and ruined her for the rest of us. We often get athletes that have been tainted with bad habits and foundations driven by thousands of horrible repetitions and not enough Quality Of Movement(QOM). A 14 y/o kid walked in to try a class and we were back equating. He said his knees were bothering him tremendously. This was the first time I’ve ever seen him move so had him do a set of 15 BW squats…Needless to say his squat mechanics were horrible. I fixed as much as I could in that amount of time and he felt better. Later to find out his ‘coach’ had him doing 155 lb BS 5 sets of 10 reps. This kid had no business back squating his body weight 50 reps.
Also I do agree with most of you, Zartsiorski wrote on page 200: “The athlete must be mentally and emotionally ready to comply with coaching instructions and undergo the stress of a training program”. We also experience this day in and day out where the athlete is there in body but not in mind and spirit. I’ve had clients that have said this out loud and I quote “I turn my brain off when I come here, I’m here to have fun” thats when I beat them senseless with a stick. The lack of experience and lack of mental toughness is a huge limiting factor on the amateur athlete. Whether they believe they want to be a certain type of athlete or whether they were told what type of athlete they should be.
@benkuch and @chobbs I agree with both of you. Spud Web, Mugsy Bouges and even closer to home Chris Spealer. I got the chance to see Speal do Fran under 2 minutes with ‘butterfly pull ups”. Talk about someone that does not see his genetic make up as a limiting factor. Grab someone with such drive, discipline and passion and they will be a force to be reckon with.
Last but not least I agree and disagree with @menacedolan Coordination is a limiting factor until the athlete learns how to relate and deal with body awareness and the task at hand. Once their mind and body figure out a way to put 1,2,3 together in that sequence it’s not a limiting factor anymore.
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We see examples throughout the text. In our supplimentary text from the NSCA it says that over time through heavy resistance training an athlete develops and adapts their ability to increase motor unit activation, and neural drive, as well as a reduction in inhibitory mechanisms, this all plays into a feedback loop where increased proficiency in these areas leads to higher levels of training which leads to even more increases in motor unit activation, neural drive and the reduction of inhibitory mechanisms.(pg 94-95) All of which are only a part in the larger picture of intra/intermuscular coordinationn. ESTC also says that neural adaptations typically occur before structural changes in skeletal muscle, which would point to the idea that athletes must first develop those neural connections, that intra/intermuscular coordination before we begin to attack changes in the muscular system. Also, “untrained individuals display only a limited ability to recruit motor units”(pg. 96-97) again, showing us that this is a skill to be developed and one that is developed over time through training. Not inherently present in untrained individuals, but over time, with proper volume and intensity these things can be learned, altered, and improved upon.
Also, it states that neural adaptations, improved motor learning and coordination are predominate early in training without increases in muscle hypertrophy, which I would argue again points to a need for a program that addresses that lack of these neural adaptations before addressing force production and hypertrophy. Essentially we cannot expect an athlete to produce gains in strength as well as performance if they have not fist developed their motor learning and coordination. You must crawl before you walk, or you must squat before you SQUAT…
Science and practice points to this throughout the text in describing the progression within intra/intermuscular coordination, we do not just wake up with those neural connections, they need to be trained, through position and posture, from the begining and before an athlete attemps movement with an external load.
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Roughly speaking, I see here two different approaches to today’s discussion and the main difference between them it’s not a different list of limiting factors but the meaning their proponents are giving to the concept of “limiting factors” itself.
If I’m not mistaken, I understand some of you as @menacedolan are considering the limiting factors as obstacles which might prevent the amateur success on his sport field while others as @chobbs see them as the specific biological or psychological limitations athlete show in this category (compared with later categories).
My personal understanding of the “limiting factors” concept is closer to the latter, so from my point of view, @train608 nails it with his exposition.
We know the amount of force produced by individual athletes when performing similar motions mainly depends on two factors:
“The maximal force capabilities of individual muscles or peripheral factors, and the coordination of muscle activity by the central nervous system, or central factors.” (Zatsiorsky, 1995).
The same author mentions that “Without adequate concentrations of circulating growth factors … to stimulate increases in muscle size, prepubescents appear to experience more difficulty increasing their muscle mass…” (Zatskiorsky, 1995) and therefore “Neural mechanisms appear to be the primary mechanism that mediates strength improvement in prepubescents.” (Zatskiorsky, 1995).
With all that said, if we assume that natural biological development of the prepubescent delimits the area in which we as coaches may produces significant improvements to those in relation with neurological factors, we also have to assume that any limiting factor to the athlete development will have to be found there.
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I agree with @menacedolan that Psychological Maturity is the biggest limiting factor in a young athlete. “If you athletes do not understand why such programs are important or do not have the maturity to participate in a strength training program, success will be limited” (Zatsiorsky, 2006 p.200). I have had athletes who physically mature to participate, but not emotionally there to take things serious, and a lot of time was wasted. I also have had athletes that are much younger then everyone else in the class, but act as if they are much older and they have excelled.
Looking deeper into things amateur athletes simply lack the intermuscular and intramuscular coordination that a more experienced athlete has. “As a result of neural adaptation, superior athletes can better coordinate the activation in single muscle and in muscle groups” (Zatisiorsky, 2006 p.60). How well both of these have been fined tuned play a role in the possible maximal force exertion of the individual. Hatfield also mentions this although he doesn’t directly label it as inter or intra, “You have to learn how to coordinate your movements… so that maximum usable force is applied to resistance.” The line that closes out the paragraph says it all, “It takes practice to lear such a skill. Sometime, for a few of us, it can take years to learn strength coordination’ (Hatfield, 1989 p.208). Amateurs just haven’t put in the time necessary to acquire this.
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Carl, that was exactly what I was saying when I said coordination was not a limiting factor because of lack of experience, whereas hormonal imbalances or deficiencies, biomechanical differences and genetics are ingrained in the athlete from the get go. Coordination or lack thereof will be a limiting factor in the elite athlete though because even through progressive work they have not adapted or learned that skill.
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