Week 9: Discussion B

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This topic contains 14 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  DD 9 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #719

    Ben Kucharik
    Participant

    First thing we can look at is Cali’s article about shitty coaches https://powerathletehq.com/2014/11/07/poor-coaching-big-3/

    A coach can let laziness, lack of knowledge, and ego get in the way of further developing their coaching abilities. I’ve seen many coaches be super stubborn about sticking to their guns even when they’re wrong or hurting the athletes. At that point the coach gets the in middle of ven diagram of the trifecta (insert diagram) the coach lacks the knowledge to help the athlete and won’t ask for help or be receptive to advice because of ego and the coach won’t learn the info because they are lazy.

     

    In my life the opportunity to coach is lacking I get 2-4 hours per week to coach. Not nearly enough to accelerate the adaptation of my coaches eye and experience.

    A knowledgeable mentor is important too because if you are getting advice from someone who suffers from the trifecta you are not helping yourself.

     

    As long as the coach isn’t his own barrier I believe that opportunity is the next biggest factor hindering the development of a coach. At that point you have to create your own opportunities.

     

    Looking forward to seeing other barriers

  • #721

    Harry
    Participant

    As we stand here in time, I am experiencing a lot of stagnation coming from my coaches. I have taken the road of knowledge and I want to become the best coach I can possibly be. With that mindset comes a lot of introspection and self awareness. That type of personal, internal review comes with experience. Stagnation comes from being comfortable with what they know and what they can accomplish. What I mean by that is that some of these coaches are pretty decent athletes, they don’t have the responsibility to program, they don’t have the responsibility to be a business owner. They are the fun “instructor”…. I use the word instructor because I want to make a clear distinction between that word and the word COACH. An instructor is like a cook… a cook reads the recipe and follows instruction. A COACH is like a Chef… a Chef that knows what time can you pull the Beef Wellington out of the oven without making the dough to soft or burnt. I do not want to be a limiting factor to my business and to my athletes. I choose the path of knowledge and sadly the bastardization of the word instructor or the fact that anyone can get a 2 day cert and name him/herself a coach is laughable. Lack of time, lack of money, lack of vision, lack of mentorship. The list can go on and on … there are true and they are valid excuses but the truth is that if something or someone is impeding you from becoming the best coach you can be… it’s only you.

  • #725

    chobbs
    Participant

    There are tons of things but I will try to stay somewhat organized and coherent in my ramblings on this topic. The first thing I would say is coaches need to take it upon themselves to want to be a better coach, whether that be reading articles, books, going to seminars, certs, etc…But the problem I see at times coaches can get too caught up into one style or way of thinking that they are tuned out to anything else. Let’s use CrossFit as an example, but this can definitely go for other organizations as well. Many crossfit coaches will do their level 1, read the journal and crossfit content, maybe do a few specialty seminars through crossfit and think they have this whole strength and conditioning world figured out. When you put blinders on it’s easy to be ignorant as to what else is out there and what other educational platforms could help you grow as a coach in order to relate to more of this world.

    Conversely, I see coaches that the next thing they learn is gospel and they throw out everything else as if “yes this is the new thing, the secret sauce.” This is also the wrong approach, all new things learned is another tool in the shed to utilize when appropriate. However for both of these issues presented so far there is a simple solution. Learn about the S&C world from the inside out or “reverse engineer” if you will? Within this class we are learning so many of the ends and outs of they “whys”. Once we can understand that it is great to go get info and techniques from multiple sources, but also be able to call bullshit easier when needed.

    Much like my comrades have already stated coaching complacency is a major issue. We have all probably had experience with the guy who thinks he has it all figured out and has his set way of doing things and it’s the only way. Or the coach that is looking at this field as a hobby and they grab what ever is necessary but nothing beyond and they have no interest in furthering their knowledge base.

    Some people cry poor when it comes to continuing education. Certs and seminars aren’t cheap so they must do their research and try to get the cream of the crop and rely on reading books, articles, and other content they can get their hands on. This is one I don’t have a lot of sympathy for as far as crying poor. When I started in this field I lived on a friends couch and I was a personal trainer at golds. I got my ISSA (yank) to get me by until I raised my client base and could afford an apartment after 4 month of living on a couch. Over about an 18 month span I took out the only credit card I ever owned and racked up about 5 g’s in certs and seminars and a little equipment. So in short, go into debt like every other red-blooded american when you are first starting out. Once the credit card was maxed I cut that bitch up, paid it off and haven’t owned one since.

    Bottom line is this an industry that you must stay current on, which in a funny way being “current” could take you back to things that have been known for a long time but were supposedly dis-proven but proven to be right all along. We can not let barriers hinder our progress as coaches, if you want it bad enough take it.

    • #730

      Carl Case
      Participant

      @chobbs I think you made a great point with people who regard what they just learned as gospel. I always liked the Bruce Lee Quote, “Adapt what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically your own.”

  • #726

    Conor Lynch
    Participant

    Opportunity and organization are the limiting factors I see the most.  Coaching is a skill that can be developed like any other and in order to progress it (just like a strength program) we need a stimulus and a plan.

    Opportunity: To watch others coach, to be coached by others, to coach athletes on a regular basis for an extended period of time, to coach athletes you’ve never seen before, to coach absolute novices and to coach world class athletes.  Without exposure to those situations you aren’t forced to develop your observation and communication skills to their fullest.  You don’t have the opportunity to learn or create new methods of teaching.

    Organization: A structure to your programs, your time and your training.  Without a plan there is no focus or drive for a next achievement.  Good coaches that don’t have a plan become stale and ineffective because they have no new material.  They cannot progress faster than their athletes’ needs and become a limitation to their athletes’ development.  Their voice and message also become stale, making athletes less receptive to their cues and methods.

    I think coaches should write out developmental programming the same way they do workouts.  Structure a sprint technique mesocycle where you incorporate reading and getting coached in person by a sprint specialist.  Or a weightlifting mesocycle where you volunteer for a lifting meet.

    Continue to track your progress as if it were a max lift. And then create at least one opportunity per month to be in a novel coaching situation or environment.

     

    • #734

      Tony Fu
      Participant

      Con Air I agree completely: opportunity is huge factor in developing as a coach.  From personal experience my coaching improved immensely when I first opened my gym, why you ask, because I coached every class for 1 year.  I coached private sessions, small groups, large groups (in my old space that was 8 people before you were in danger of killing each other), fundamenatals, EVERYTHING.  I was forced to figure out how to communicate the same concept 10 different ways, how to be engaging and fresh and how to beat the same joke into the ground when it worked a la @luke.  Without that opportunity, although not ideal, I would not be as developed as a person who coaches 5 hours a week, @benkuch referenced this.

  • #727

    Conor Lynch
    Participant

    I’m challenging us to take other coaches’ perceived lack of effort, interest or desire as our personal responsibility.  What are the solutions to it?  How can we help other coaches?

    Can you host a coaches’ only workout session on Tuesday mornings, Friday nights or Sunday afternoons?  Can you meet with your coaches and have them talk to you for 5 minutes about their favorite coach of all time?  Or their favorite athlete success story?

    Can you have a reading list of free resources ready to hand to a coach who is struggling? And then follow up with a discussion or have them share the book with a friend?

    Given how deep we’ve fallen into the PAHQ rabbit hole, how are we any different than CrossFit Level 1 Trainer’s who eat, sleep and breathe the CrossFit Journal?  Because we choose to train for field sport and they choose to train for sagittal plane proficiency?

    Where are we falling short in supporting our fellow coaches and creating opportunities to learn about Power Athlete methodology or any other coaching resource?

    The entire industry is a reflection of us as individuals to outsiders.  They won’t appreciate why we think we’re different or how incredible good coaching can be until they experience it.  You can battle bullshit by shoveling your way through it or by killing the cow and sharing the steak with everyone.  Let’s find actions we can take to make others around us better.  Complaining about other’s actions is wasted energy.  Working towards to changing them is going to make you and them better.

    • #732

      DavidMck
      Participant

      @Connor Ive found that simply by upping my own game, by actively trying to learn more and bring more to the table with my clients and athletes, the coaches around me are noticing, taking note, and upping their own game. I work in a independent contractor sort of situation, so the trainers and coaches around me know that if what Im doing is working better than what they are doing they lose clients. I think this is a great first step for all of us, lead by example and make the people around you just as accountable as you make yourself. This industry has been built on and exploded around coaches and trainers who have become wildly successful without really doing anything. Its time we start to raise the bar, and put those people on blast, whether in a friendly or unfriendly way.

    • #735

      chobbs
      Participant

      @conorwlynch I totally agree with putting our coaches coaching development on us as leaders. Having regular staff meetings, subsidizing seminars and certs, team outings, “what are you reading” conversations. However, we also must monitor their buy-in and if they are getting complacent their motivation all around is probably doing so as well. Then a sit down of is this the right career path or what is going on in your life that may be causing this?

  • #729

    Carl Case
    Participant

    Through my observations there have been a few things that I have picked up on. First off is knowledge/experience. A lot of the coaches that I have met Crossfit is there first experience to training (it was for me too). They worked a corporate job got into CF liked it, and thought he this is something that I can do. Get there lvl 1 and they feel and feel sufficient with that. This isn’t everyone, I have met plenty who are hungry to learn more. I have seen them at CFFB seminars. However there are also just those who are cert collectors that want to be able to put it up on their walls, and have no intention of implementing it.

    Another one that I have noticed when trying to identify possible coaches is the ability to make connections. You can be one of the best coaches, but if you cannot get your athlete to understand and bye into what you are doing it will just fall on deaf ears.

    Also as all of us have said complacency.

    For me I feel my biggest limiting factor is knowledge. Through interning for CFFB, and now this academy is has been raised substantially. But going through this also make me realize there is still a lot that I don’t understand. The second and this might be bigger then the knowledge for me is confidence. Just having the confidence to speak with conviction on what I am presenting, and not second guessing myself

  • #731

    DavidMck
    Participant

    When I look around me at other coaches one of the overarching themes I see all the time is a lack of knowledge, paired with a nasty ego. Too often “coaches” or “trainers” whatever you want to call them achieve some level of certification or accreditation and they are done, or maybe they supplement with some similar certifications but it seems as if there is this window of accreditation, where coaches will actively seek out “knowledge” and then they are done. I know so many coaches who receive their ACE and never move beyond it, or maybe they go back for their ACE health coach cert, or coaches who receive their Lvl 1. CF cert, maybe supplement with a kids, mobility or that other one that focuses on football( wtf is that all about?). Even Coaches who get their CSCS and nothing more. Actually, one of my worst (best) coaches stories is about a guy who owned and opperated a gym, had a degree in excercise science, his CSCS and he was and is by far the worst, most dangerous coach I have ever seen or met.

    Bottom line coaches receive a BLoE (Base level of education) and their gigantic ego’s fueled by the success of their newly acquired clients and the novice effect puts them into a place where they feel they do not need to or their is nothing else for them to learn. I have actually had coaches tell me they wouldn’t get any other certification because they already know everything there is to know and everything beyond the ACE or CF lvl 1 is redundant. This is where ego comes into play, if you admit you have more to learn, if you admit you do not know everything people feel like this is a concession towards the idea of them being an inadequate coach, where I see the constant drive to learn more as a sign of a good coach, one who knows you can never know everything, or achieve an end point of growth, there is always room to grow, to gain knowledge, to be humbled, to learn. If you close those doors you’re basically just playing a part, a role, you’re a character of what a real coach is.

    A limiting factor of Knowledge, paired with an inability to be truly reflective and honest with ones self due to ego is a deadly combination. Have you ever seen someone add bands to a leg press machine? I have. Ever seen someone pay $120/hr to do walking lunges for 45 minutes? I have. All done by coaches who believe they have reached the pinnacle of knowledge in their field. Its a fucked up thing.

    For me personally, lack of knowledge and opportunity to coach are my two biggest factors. Due to my previous career as a chef educator I have a lot of experience being in front of large crowds, demonstrating skills, lecturing/talking, and years of teaching in high school/middle school, so speaking is not an issue, directing and coaching is not an issue, the issue for me comes in my inability to adequately articulate ideas simply due to a lack of knowledge outside of personal experience from 18 years of clanging and banging. The confidence is there, its just hindered from my own personal judgment of myself, and lack of opportunity to coach over the last few years. while I was writing this I was thinking back to what Tex said about FMS, and how if you have the opportunity you should go, while I have my issues about FMS I think its dead on, do not pass up any opportunity you have to learn more about what to do, or to learn what not to do, every opportunity you get to see someone else’s point of view, to learn something from someone else is an opportunity and should be approached as such.

  • #733

    Tony Fu
    Participant

    I think this discussion is great and it’s clear we’re passionate about coaching from our answers.  Passion is one of the biggest factors for me.  Show me somebody who is passionate about helping people succeed and I’ll show you a great coach.  Passion is what drives anybody to succeed in their given line of work and I would argue even more so with respect to coaching.  I’m sure there is somebody out there passionate about accounting and very successful but I believe you have to be passionate to be a great coach, it’s a requirement.  So to the points made before the people interested in collecting certs but not truly passionate about helping others will never reach they’re full potential in my opinion.

    If passion is a requirement then access to mentors is the most important factor in my book.  All of the great coaches have had a person or people in their life that has sparked or incubated the desire to help others succeed.  John had Zangus and Raf, I’ve been lucky enough to have PAHQ and a friend of HQ Mark Watts formerly of ElitFTS.  Having the access to great minds willing to share is irreplaceable.

    On a much, much smaller scale I’m in the process of bringing a coach on board right now and I’m the first person to discuss concepts, beliefs, or spend any time developing his eye.  This is a guy who has a degree in Ex. Sci. and WANTS to coach he’s just never had anybody help develop his skills.  Sharing of knowledge is key to developing as a coach which is why I like @conorwlynch idea about taking the initiative to help other coaches.  This access not only exposes you to new/different info. but it also allows for you to form and sharpen your own ideas and beliefs.

    With all of that being said the last part is taking the initiative to make those connections or gain new knowledge.  @chobbs hits the nail on the head when he says you have to sacrifice to get what you want.  You have to sleep on a friends couch, you have to face drowning on a daily basis like @mcquilkin did with Raf, you have to load 100,000’s of pounds of weight for powerlifters in a garage if you want to succeed.  This generation has had it too easy and hard work and sacrifice is apparently a bad thing .  Excuse me while I go to my safe space.

    OK, I’m back.  It’s amazing how life works – you decide to drive 6 hours to KY 3yrs ago and take a cert with 2 guys who kept referencing the Fast and the Furious and the journey begins.  If I never took that first seminar I don’t believe I would where I’m at today.  My passion was lit, I kept in touch with those instructors, I went into good ol’ American debt to open my gym and have continued to learn to help make me a better coach.  I’m just at the starting line but it’s exciting, fun and I get to bring my dog to work.

  • #736

    Harry
    Participant

    @conorlynch you hit the head of the nail. I love the opportunity and organization post. While I agree 100% with you on challenging coaches, I have been hitting my head against the wall on this. If its a part time coach and its a side job or a hobby to be a coach its been virtually impossible to motivate them.. I finally gave them a goal and an ultimatum get your CFFB cert with in a year. I’ve held coaches only wods, coaches meetings, coaches interventions and at the end of the day you can lead a horse to water….

  • #737

    DD
    Participant

    For the first 10 years of my career I was only an observer of the S&C world, fighting hard to keep them out of my scope of practice and well within their own.  I was responsible for the rehabilitation of athletic injuries and was only focused on the injury at hand.  I include the coaches in the athletes activity, limitations, and hope there were no other issues. As I evolved as an athletic trainer, I realized that the time off of participation was an opportunity to utilize decreased participation demands and a window to develop overall strength and conditioning. An opportunity to work together with another coach and have another set of eyes with a different skill set to help.  It also revealed to me that I could be doing more myself. I took this as a chance to expand my knowledge base and improve my education, tool kit, and marketability.  Not only that, the most important was the best care for my athletes.  I wanted them to be better than they were before injury.

    Too many coaches are just OK with doing what they think is best, not what is best for the athlete.  Instead of keeping their eyes wide open to all of the information out there, doing the research, trying and failing and making an extensive database of what not to do, they just keep going through the motions of what they know.  Not looking for what is best for their athletes.  When you start putting those you care for/train/work with first, you strive to give what is best.  It goes back to the Jesuit HS education I got to be a “man for others”.  Too many coaches are self centered and close minded.

    I also think that coaches and ATC’s get into the pattern of only looking for areas of continuing education that already fall in line with what they already know and believe in.  Instead of taking the opportunity to think outside the box, they stay comfortable with what they know.  They are afraid to shake the foundation, because there is the possibility that they were wrong.  Everyone fails and is wrong, take the time to apologize and learn.

    A huge barrier is the abundance of people that the athletes have influencing them.  The sport coach, the weights coach (sometimes the same person), position coaches, parents, club coaches, personal trainers, etc.  Too many cooks in the kitchen!!!  Parents think that more is better, instead of better is better.  The ever evolving quest for the special sauce.  To the coach, its their job to have a successful team, to the club coaches outside of the school the same rings true, but the club coaches and the personal trainers are also looking at business and income, and the parents are all over the map with what they subject their athletes to.  In these situations, rarely is it looked at as an opportunity to collaborate with other professionals, but instead its a turf war of what the other entities are taking away from each other.  I made it a mission to get on the club coaches and personal trainer’s radar, so go introduce yourself and let them know your credentials and philosophy ASAP.  While you might not see eye to eye, allow your knowledge and openness to drive the experience into a positive relationship.  Tour their gym, have them to yours, build a relationship of open communication and check the feelings at the door.

    That is the final barrier to discuss.  Feelings.  Too many times feelings are hurt and minds and ears shut down.  It is ok to disagree, it is not a personal attack.  It is a difference in knowledge base, philosophies, and sometimes personal opinion.  All of these are not your problem, the athlete is.  Even when things are dangerous and potentially catastrophic, do what you can to help the athlete, and keep your feelings out of it.  Battle the bullshit with knowledge and experience.  Be diligent and relentless with your approach.  Realize the difference between being emotional and passionate.  The relationships with the athletes and other professionals will be stronger because of it.  If the others choose to not be receptive to what you teach/coach/believe, fuck em.  Stay in your lane and keep striving to be the best.  People will notice and get on board.

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