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For me the simplest way to identify if they are an Amateur is to put them on a Linear Progression regardless of what their training background is, unless they have explicitly told me they have done a LP and can go into full detail about it with me. As John brought up during the video past weight training does not equal a trained athlete. If you haven’t done a linear progression or a similar progressive overload system you are likely an amateur. Here is why I would say that this is the best identification tool. If about 4-6 weeks which Supertraining us is the intramuscular coordination phase and they are starting reach failure on their lifts already (this is provided there was a good starting point), then they are likely a trained athlete. Why because we know “The maximal force is achieved when (a) a maximal number of MUs is recruited (b) rate coding is optimal and (c) MUs are activated synchronously over the short period” (Zatsiorsky, 2006 p.65). I believe it was Luke that said, “Lack of coordination is what allows us to progress through the linear progression.” If the athlete has the necessary inter/intra muscular coordination that we are looking for they won’t survive very long on the program. If they are lacking the necessary inter/intra muscular coordination then they be able to continue to progress on and we know that they are an Amateur/Novice athlete. I have had a number of older athletes some of them collegiate athletes who I have thrown on the Linear Progression and they have been able to ride it out full term. To me this says that their inter/intra muscular coordination hadn’t been optimized.
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I agree with @menacedolan that Psychological Maturity is the biggest limiting factor in a young athlete. “If you athletes do not understand why such programs are important or do not have the maturity to participate in a strength training program, success will be limited” (Zatsiorsky, 2006 p.200). I have had athletes who physically mature to participate, but not emotionally there to take things serious, and a lot of time was wasted. I also have had athletes that are much younger then everyone else in the class, but act as if they are much older and they have excelled.
Looking deeper into things amateur athletes simply lack the intermuscular and intramuscular coordination that a more experienced athlete has. “As a result of neural adaptation, superior athletes can better coordinate the activation in single muscle and in muscle groups” (Zatisiorsky, 2006 p.60). How well both of these have been fined tuned play a role in the possible maximal force exertion of the individual. Hatfield also mentions this although he doesn’t directly label it as inter or intra, “You have to learn how to coordinate your movements… so that maximum usable force is applied to resistance.” The line that closes out the paragraph says it all, “It takes practice to lear such a skill. Sometime, for a few of us, it can take years to learn strength coordination’ (Hatfield, 1989 p.208). Amateurs just haven’t put in the time necessary to acquire this.
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Crap I only did 3 athletic burpees
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Specific Physical Preparedness is the “Practice of the specific sport under conditions which are encountered in competition”(Verkhoshansky, 2009, p.25). This the actual practice of the sports, and the skills that make up the required of that sport. This can be working on free throws in basketball, practicing 2v1s in rugby, working on throwing release, etc. This is the job of the the sports coach.
“Specificity training means exercising to improve in a highly specific way the expression of all the above factors are in a given sport” (Verkhoshansky, 2009, p.25). This is done within the walls of our (S/C Coaches) gym. Every demand or stimulus we pick to impose on our athletes are going to drive a certain adaptation. It is our job as a Strength and Conditioning coaches to make sure what we are selecting has a high transfer of training results to athletes given sport.
Where we can bridge that gap between these two is by looking Specific Physical Preparedness and using the S.A.I.D Principle to make sure that specificity of training we are using with our athlete’s is going to have the best transfer over to that athletes sport.. -
@menacedolan you brought up a great point that weights can be used to teach an athlete reduce forces, most injuries a results of an athletes lack of ability to do so. A great tool for this is the power clean. Tt is often implemented for its ability to drive power production, however I think the catch is ofter over looked. We have all this force that is being directed towards the ground, which is the perfect opportunity to teach of reduce and dissipate that force safely. A proper catch is going to transfer over to a safer athlete on the field. This goes with using weights to challenge posture and position It’s usually did I get from the ground to my shoulders, yes? Then it was successful. This is part of the reason the other part is simply to develop maximum force. Hatfield states, ” In all the world of sports, speed is king. But you cannot become fast in any sports movement without maximum force. And that means one thing: Get awesomely strong.” Using weights to to develop strength gives us the launching pad to move forward into other athletic developments. During our last class talked about mobility, stability, and proficiency to be the precursors to strength. Looking what comes after strength we have power, speed, replication of speed. These other things cannot be properly developed with strength and we do that through lifting weights.
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Like the rest of you definitely picking up words that I default to, such as ok and so. Will have to start being more aware of that anytime I talk.
Decided to throw in some setup out takes since on of my kids felt like being a clown.
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@train608 I think that you hit it on the head that the WAYTF really defines what your measure of what someones strength should be. Without context we cannot properly judge the individuals strength. JWs story is the perfect reference. Based purely on maximal strength he would be considered strong he might no be considered strong but where it really mattered was the transfer of training. He result prove he had high transfer, and was stronger.
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I think that Super Training gives a good starting place for a definition of what strength is. “… the ability of a given muscle group of muscles to generate muscular force under specific conditions.” There are two parts of this definition that I like when I am trying to define my definition of strength. Take the first part, “the muscles ability to generate force.” Generate force is an encompassing line, which I like this because it can be anything from lifting weights, to running, jumping, tackling, etc. However looking to Hatfield he states, ” I have identified no fewer than 23 different sources of strength.” I think there is much more to be considered when defining strength then just the muscle contractions at play.
I feel with a little interpretation of the second part, “under specific conditions” those other factors are taken into account. Specific conditions can be anything from your training, field of competition, environmental factors, emotional, pain, etc.
My definition of strength would be “Your ability to perform a task required at any given moment under whatever the condition are presented.” So your ability to out lift, drive a runner backwards during a tackle, out run a defender, execute a task under pain, controlling/harnessing your emotional response and still perform a task, are all displays of strength. If you are able to do a task + conditional factor better then your opponent at a given time, I would say at that you have greater strength. When we are trying to figure out who is stronger then the other, I think that it all comes down to the arena that it is being competed in.
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@chobbs I have to agree with everyone that I like the addition of the proficiency of the 7 primal movement patterns. The first point you make is a good identifying tool, but it can also be a trap for some coaches if that is all they evaluate. I have had plenty of athletes/members that know their way around a gym, bar, are mentally ready. However from the stand point of the nervous system they are still very much an amateur. Now you listed 4 different criteria in your identification, so I am not say it was your only tool for evaluation. I just think a lot of coaches could mistake that for a trained athlete.
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I love that Supertraining quote, “sport then becomes problem solving.” That is exactly what we are trying to accomplish in our training. We know what sport they are play, but there a infinite possibilities of problems that they could face. We have to prepare them to be able to complete those unknown task. And as the quote states this is all controlled by the neuromuscular system, which the amateur athlete has developed yet.
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I have to disagree with it not being a limiting factor. Since it isn’t developed the amateur athlete will not be as strong, or generate forces as quickly. Just because it is trained, and absence doesn’t mean there isn’t a propensity for it, at the given point in an athletes training age it is one factors limiting them. I think that if you are missing or lacking efficiency a vital compenent then that would be a limiting factor.
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Coaches trying to hard to bridge the gap is a great point to bring up. I couldn’t believe it when @mcquilkin showed me the picture of the LFL girl practicing her throws with that banded contraption.
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I agree with you that preparation and preparedness are two different things. I would say that both the sports coach and strength and conditioning are both work on preparation to increase the athlete preparedness or state of readiness. Through S/C preparation we are getting them in a state of readiness to be able to meet whatever demands they may face in their sport. And the sport coach version of preparation is practice to be prepared for the game. So after all that rambling I agree with you that both sports and s/c coach are working on preparation. My main point is the tools that we use during our preparation are different. I am not going to coach my softball player on how to swing a bat or throw a ball.
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Both of the definitions that I used came from Supertraining, and transfer of training is mentioned in Science and Practice.
